No plans for light on Euclid despite safety concerns

By Jeff Bunn
Capital Journal staff
Published/Last Modified on Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 - 12:03:49 am CST

PIERRE — An accident last week involving an 8-year-old child and a vehicle may have increased awareness about safety in one part of town, but little is expected to change.

The child sustained minor injuries after being struck by a car at Fifth Street and Euclid Avenue. No tickets were issued.

But contrary to what some in the community have called for for years, there are no plans to install a traffic light at Fourth and Euclid, said Leon Schochenmaier, city administrator.

Jeff Bunn | Capital Journal
The corner of Euclid Avenue and Fourth Avenue is seen here on Wednesday. A child was hit by a car in the area last week prompting some to call again for the installation of a traffic signal.
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“There isn’t a lot we can do at this point in time until the traffic turning movements and the total amount of traffic meet those national warrants,” Schochenmaier said. “Right now, it looks like we’re going to be putting up with the condition as is.”

Schochenmaier said the installation of a traffic light on Euclid Avenue, a U.S. highway, is regulated by federal mandates of traffic volume.

Larry Weiss, who heads the safety committee for the city, said the last traffic count study in 2008 found that the area was close to meeting the requirements for a signal for two hours during a given day, but not for an entire eight-hour span.

“The volume of traffic during the rest of the day is really quite light,” he said. “To meet warrant requirements you need to have that higher traffic of volume for an eight-hour time period.”

Lisa Blake, director of Children’s Castle Child Care Center, on Euclid Avenue, said vehicles whizzing by the facility have been a problem for 16 years and would be alleviated with the installation of a traffic light.

“They finally put a cross-walk in because they thought that would be the answer. That’s ridiculous,” she said. “In light of the last accident, people just need to slow down. That would certainly solve it.”

Blake said the child struck last week was not enrolled in the Children’s Castle.

Weiss said federal warrants for a light might not be popular all the time but he said they guard against improper placement of signals as evidenced by placement of one at Elizabeth and Euclid, which Schochenmaier said is being discussed for removal.

“That’s a political signal,” Weiss, a former city commissioner, said. “That was put in without warrants a number of years ago prior to my being a commissioner. It meets no warrants. The problem is once a signal is put in place trying to get it taken out is a very emotional thing.”

Schochenmaier said there also are talks of removing parking spots on Fourth Street as motorists approach Euclid. The move would widen the street and allow for the creation of a left turning lane.

“The frustration level is what causes part of the problem at the peak flow time in the evening,” Weiss said. “Folks stack up there. There is traffic moving on Euclid, and there are very few gaps to get in in the Euclid traffic. People get frustrated and take chances, and that can contribute to accidents.”

As no great changes appear imminent, Schochenmaier asked motorists to exercise patience along the upper stretch of Euclid.

“They have to be careful,” he said. “They have to be patient. The back-up of traffic going west on Fourth Street needing to turn south on Euclid occurs for about 8 or 10 minutes in the morning and at noon and sometimes at five o’clock at night.

“They are short periods of time, but they are problematic because none of us want to wait in traffic. That’s what most people are reacting to. They don’t like to wait.”

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Comments

43 comment(s)

hwy 14 is a joke wrote on Feb 20, 2010 11:45 PM:

" personally hwy 14 in Pierre needs to be redo completely. I live near john deere, and first off, we NEED a frontage road, the posted speed limit is 65, which is fine. But, jeez I cannot make a left turn or right turn off of 14 without someone on my butt!!!! And YES 4th and Euclid needs a traffic light. There is a daycare right on the corner, HELLO! Also, a guy can sit there at that corner sitting on 4th trying to make a left for a half hour!!!! Someone in the state dept. take a look! "

To Matter of Time wrote on Feb 12, 2010 2:26 PM:

" and anyone else cutting thru Delta Dental/SDHSAA parking lot, there is a sign posted "Private Drive/No Tresspassing." The authorities have been advised of this issue. It is a traffic violation to cut thru parking lots/private property to avoid traffic signals/stop signs. "

Sarah wrote on Feb 9, 2010 8:51 AM:

" What about a 4-way stop sign? It would slow the traffic coming into to town....all day, not just at certain times. Plus allow for more of an even flow of traffic coming off of 4th St. during these peak hours. "

Father of young children wrote on Feb 4, 2010 4:58 PM:

" This can be done and should be done, throw out the survays that have done and the studies that have been done, its a reality thing contact the higher ups and quit contacting the has been commisioners these are the guys that have been running the show for some time and then bailed. if they say its a DOT issue contact the higher ups and if that doesn't work get ahold of your congressman or women it can be done. don't let them blow smoke at you. "

RG wrote on Feb 4, 2010 2:42 PM:

" Regarding Euclid traffic.I shudder to think children crossing where there's heavy traffic.Precious lifes are threatened daily by speeding drivers,cell phone use ,even worse texting. Mr Glodt &Weiss think parents need to talk to there children.Don't be shocked gentleman,I'm willing to bet they are warned daily by their parents.It is discouraging to believe it's impossible to get a light because DOT says not enough traffic.This is't Sioux Falls.How dare you put a price on ones life?Do yourself a favor and take turns policing Euclid, your conscience won,t bother so much when EMTS pick up a lifeless body. "

Serious sidecomical side wrote on Feb 4, 2010 4:05 AM:

" The serious side is that it IS an issue that needs resolved. A lot of good points are made. The daycare effects it because people picking up or dropping off their children want to merge into traffic right at the intersection. The width of the street does not allow for a turning lane. Often times you also end up with drivers on opposite sides of the street wondering who's turn is it to go. Also, can the intersection at Broadway and Euclid receive more traffic than 4th street, or is that light there because of the school? "

Calling all comissioners - find a solution wrote on Feb 3, 2010 8:02 PM:

" There must be alternatives to a stop light that would make the intersection safer. Safe Routes to School is a program seemingly under the direction of the FHWA, perhaps that should be a starting off point for city commisioners. Their concern is no doubt genuine, but children crossing Euclid and other intersections need more than their concern. Better signage and lighting near all school routes is needed in Pierre from elementary to high school. "

RE Practice your Patience wrote on Feb 3, 2010 9:27 AM:

" Patience stops after sitting at an intersection 10 min because people don't slow down coming into town. Turning right or going further north or down to Elizabeth is sometimes the only way to get across Euclid and onto 4th during peak traffic times. Have you ever tried crossing between 7:45-8 or 5-5:15?? Try it sometime. Or maybe you're one of the many that speed into town in the morning and could care less about the traffic and KIDS trying to cross - just as long as you get to where you need to be by 8. "

Mom wrote on Feb 3, 2010 4:24 AM:

" Part of my problem when driving through that intersection is the way the families dropping off or picking up their kids at the daycare park. Most of the time, when going west on 4th street you can't see what is coming down Euclid. "

More Lights wrote on Feb 2, 2010 11:36 PM:

" This town already has plenty of lights. Just none of them are timed. I've heard the story that early Pierre wanted it that way so people would stop here. Who wants to come when you have to stop at every light to get where you want to go? Time the lights, the technology is there--those expensive lights on the highway don't have to stop people at EVERY intersection to control traffic. "

Burke wrote on Feb 2, 2010 2:24 PM:

" Forget depending on the state--lets do what we need to do with what we have. For God's sake put some frigging sand at the top of Euclid when it snows! For over 20 years I have traveled in and out of Pierre on that road and I can count on one hand any time enough sand was dropped to make for safe driving. Put up flashing lights at the edge of town warning people to slow down, and drop the speed limit to 25. Barney could rake in some money on speeding tickets that way, too. "

Practice your patience wrote on Feb 2, 2010 6:19 AM:

" To "Matter of Time", Maybe you should find a different route instead of cutting through private property at Delta. There are too many workers (traffic) between Delta and SDHSAA for others to be cutting through. Either find a new route or practice your patience!! "

Avoids Euclid wrote on Feb 1, 2010 1:44 PM:

" I know I avoid the top of Euclid whenever possible, not just during the mornings or evenings. I'm willing to bet that there are many other people that also avoid it because it's such a headache. I like the idea of knowing when they do this "count" so that everyone who avoids it (because it's a terrible intersection) can all drive it to push this warrant through. "

Matter of Time wrote on Jan 31, 2010 4:53 PM:

" If the STATE has all the jurisdiction here, why don't they set the HP's out there to enforce the speed? And honestly, why would anyone want to sit at an intersection for 10 min just to cross - no wonder people avoid it. I go thru this intersection every day...can't count how many times I've turned right and cut thru Delta Dental or gone further north to get on Euclid to get on 4th. City should have a can-do attitude rather than "the state won't let us". WORK TOGETHER AND FIGURE IT OUT!! "

To To Raymond F wrote on Jan 29, 2010 4:49 PM:

" You mention the golf course but nothing about what else he says like the dog park or the bike paths? It is clear by your statement you are a golfer and Raymond F. is spot on and absolutely sticking to the subject. "

Larry Weiss Fans wrote on Jan 29, 2010 4:45 PM:

" I am not certain Mr. Weiss was "asked" to remain and he may not be "accountable to the voters". However, if he is acting on behalf of the City, he certainly is accountable or the person who asked him to stay is accountable. I doubt Mr. Weiss is an asset as we still have problems. "

GMAX9 wrote on Jan 29, 2010 1:55 PM:

" Euclid Ave is actually US Hwy 83 and is governed by the rules established by the Federal Hwy Administration. You can't "put it to a vote" or just "install it and get it over with". In the event the traffic fairy came by one night and put a signal up the FHWA would make DOT take it down the next day. Sorry folks but that's the way it is. Contact FHWA at 224-8033 for an explanation. Maybe you could ask for Economic Stimulus money to fund the project if they change their minds. "

to raymund f wrote on Jan 28, 2010 8:50 PM:

" sorry, raymund...I'm not a golfer, but I know the changes they are doing at the golf course are being paid for by the golfers. Also, the building is leaking and the restrooms don't have wheel chair access. This had nothing to do with the golf course. Stick to the subject. "

tired wrote on Jan 28, 2010 12:31 PM:

" There are a number of EXTREMELY dangerous intersections in this town that continue to be ignored. It will take a child being killed before any of these "leaders" do anything. And seriously, it is more than time for some people to move on. They didn't help us when they were in charge...they aren't helping us now. Where was Larry when this daycare was allowed at this intersection? We certainly can't count on Gene to make an appropriate decision, it's always about the dollars, not the kids. "

Sara wrote on Jan 28, 2010 9:43 AM:

" con't: If they would publish a notice for when the count is taken, I bet they would be able to get the counts they need for the light. People want a light at that intesection and it is a safty hazard not to have a light there. Let's make the government work for the tax payers. Is there a meeting planned for a public discussion? Can this be put to vote? "

Sara wrote on Jan 28, 2010 9:41 AM:

" The reason why traffic is so light at that intersection is that people avoid it as much as possible. I know I go out of my way to avoid that intersection every evening. My child goes to daycare on that side of Pierre... I work directly off of 4th street. Logically I should take fourth to get my child, it is a direct route and would save me time. But I take Harrison and then Capital because they have lights and I know I wont be waiting at an intersection for 10 minutes. "

anonymous wrote on Jan 28, 2010 8:50 AM:

" If I remember correctly, Mr. Weiss chose not to run for re election, Several new commissioners were elected. The mayor was concerned that the rookies did not have the experience to handle the duties. Mr. Weiss was "asked" to remain in some capacity and although he is now not accountable to the voters his vast experience and leadership is a great asset to us all, thank you Larry. "

2 cents wrote on Jan 28, 2010 8:35 AM:

" Whose decision is this? Local, state or federal? Seems to me it should be up to the city to decide whether a light is needed. In all honesty, I don't see why this continues to be a problem. Just put the light in and move on instead of having a constant battle about the issue. People will adjust and it's not like it would be a major hold up to traffic. Maybe it could even be programed to just flash during the lighter traffic hours. "

because... wrote on Jan 28, 2010 8:08 AM:

" because none of you know-it-alls will step in and take his place. "

parent wrote on Jan 28, 2010 6:44 AM:

" First I am glad to hear that no one died. I hope it doesn't take a death for this issue to be resolved. It isn't that there is a daycare or that there are ppl coming in from town. It's all of those plus, the city needs to consider safety above what is "warrentied" Can we start a petition to put this to a vote? I only ask since our officials seem to want to do dot "warrents" and not what is RIGHT "

JJ wrote on Jan 28, 2010 5:01 AM:

" As a parent with children that cross Euclid, we drop them off in the am because they are to scared to cross. They then walk with a group of friends well out of their way to the stop light down further to get home. Maybe it takes some political persons child to get hurt before something changes... "

Raymund F. wrote on Jan 28, 2010 12:32 AM:

" We don't have any money for traffic lights, the City Commision spent half a million more on the golf course. How many rail road crossings in town don't even have lights. It's a matter of priorities, the golf course comes first, then the dog park, then the bike paths and then there is nothing left for public safety or snow removal. Lets get a grant and build an airline terminal maybe a real air carrier will come to town. "

SPEAKING OF... wrote on Jan 27, 2010 4:26 PM:

" Now that you mention it -- why doesn't Larry Weiss ever go away? "

concerned parent wrote on Jan 27, 2010 2:00 PM:

" First of all, who in their right mind lets their young child cross Euclid alone at any time of day?? I too agree that a stop light is needed at that intersection. I live in that area and cross Euclid at 4th street twice per day to get to and from work. I see lots of children coming from the trailer court on 5th street crossing Euclid to get to Jefferson School every morning. It breaks my heart to see them unaccompanied by an adult. Maybe there are two issues here?? "

Memorial wrote on Jan 27, 2010 1:57 PM:

" When the large memorial celebrations are held at the capitol complex a temporary light is placed at the corner of Euclid/Fourth it takes a day or two to get used to, but cars aren't jumping into the intersection and those on cell phones, actually look to their left. People that make their own right turn lane next to the daycare is another accident, w/o a turn lane on Euclid, inner lane cars are blindspots. Correction is needed, figure it out before death occurs. "

Observer wrote on Jan 27, 2010 10:18 AM:

" “That’s a political signal,” says Weiss, a former city commissioner that doesn't seem to go away. Personally, I have no problem with a political signal when needed. One of the problems with government regulations, common sense cannot be used as a factor in making decisions. "

Harrison Garfield wrote on Jan 27, 2010 9:20 AM:

" I couldn't believe they put the stop light in at Harrison & Garfield after the Vietnam Memorial. I never had any troubles making a left hand turn there during peak hours, isn't that what the stop light at 4th & Harrison is for? SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE AT 4TH & EUCLID, before a child is KILLED!!! If it were my child, I'd sure be rocking the boat with whoever would listen. "

the professor wrote on Jan 27, 2010 9:02 AM:

" Larry Weiss worries about some trucker hitting a RR bridge that is clearly marked but not the safety of our children?

Come on, I thought he was off the council and out of city government.

Another thought, why don't the city hire an out of town consultant for $35,000 to study the intersection? "

route.. wrote on Jan 26, 2010 9:03 AM:

" With all the problems with this intersection. Why not find an alternate route? Seems to me that Pierre is a small community and by taking other routes would only add 5 maybe 10 minutes to a short drive. "

young parent wrote on Jan 25, 2010 11:08 AM:

" its completely crazy to not have a light at the intersection. maybe there isnt what the DOT claims to be a required amount of traffic through there but the way the 4th st development is growing as well as the town itself its only a matter of time before it does reach the limit..i think we could sacrifice a 30 sec stop headed to the donut shop or pullin into town for the safety of the pedestrians "

ch wrote on Jan 23, 2010 11:56 AM:

" DOES NO ONE remember the controversy over having a day care at that intersection?? Sorry, but it was a stupid idea for that day care to ever open at that location!!! It was brought out at that time what a dangerous situation it would be - an example of money gets what is wanted perhaps. "

dsh wrote on Jan 22, 2010 12:45 PM:

" This is ridiculous. That is an extremely dangerous intersection. They need a light there before someone is killed. Having a light there would be more cost effective than making a cop sit there every day. This is the capital of the state and should take pride in their safety. "

to Viking wrote on Jan 22, 2010 10:51 AM:

" A child has been hit by a car - doesn't matter to the city because the child wasn't killed. I am so glad that the child wasn't seriously injured.

I agree to what was already said - people coming into town do NOT follow the speed limit. Those not familiar with the daycare or Jefferson elementary aren't going to stop or even slow down here.

A crossing guard on this street would also be dangerous because of the speed of the traffic at this intersection. "

Viking wrote on Jan 21, 2010 5:36 PM:

" The combination of the highway traffic, 4th Street crossing, the day care, the motel, the limited road views and no sidewalks on the east side of 4th St makes this a very dangerous corner. Just a matter of time before some child gets hit by a car. Install the traffic light now. "

Bill Farnham wrote on Jan 21, 2010 4:06 PM:

" As a motorist using the 4th Street & Euclid intersection to get to my employment at Walmart, I routinely encounter the traffic build up at this intersection. I know the "traffic count" isn't great enough for long enough period of the day, but I sincerely hope that a fatality doesn't have to occur before something can be done. The Elizabeth Street intersection two blocks south also may not fit the "warrants" criteria, but it is the only place that people living west of Euclid can use to get onto Euclid to then turn east onto 4th. "

Concerned for kids wrote on Jan 21, 2010 12:51 PM:

" Fourth and Euclid is a horrible spot in the morning. I feel really sorry for the kids trying to cross Euclid to get to Jefferson school. The traffic does not stop to allow anyone to cross, and it is hard to see the kids on the corner waiting to cross. I witnessed a father standing w/ his child for many minutes before I turned and they still were unable to cross. The city really should take into cosideration how unsafe it is for the kids to cross Euclid in the morning w/ no protection. How about a crossing guard ifnotalilght??? "

anonymous wrote on Jan 21, 2010 10:09 AM:

" That intersections needs a light! It is awful trying to cross there especially since it is a major road going to Walmart and the mall from that side of town. I've seen quite a few potential accidents from that intersection, something needs to be done. "

linnilu wrote on Jan 21, 2010 8:38 AM:

" People come whizzing into town over the speed limit and tend to slow down only a little by the time they reach State Motel. If you come into town at the speed limit, you get tail gated, passed and 'flipped off'. Each morning we have cops sitting at each of the elementary schools but none at the top of Euclid. If they aren't going to add a light, at least find a way to enforce the speed limit. Of course, nothing will be done until an "important" person's kid gets hit. "

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